Economic insight; Something’s wrong with the employment data

Why are workers dropping out of the labor force?

What’s causing the discrepancies between the Establishment Survey and the Household Survey? I can theorize two reasons. Read on….

Click to enlarge: The household survey shows a much lower civilian labor force employed gain of 179,000 for July, while 239,000 dropped out of the workforce. Moreover the Total Civilian Labor Force contracted by 63,000, thus the labor force participation rate is struggling.

Here is yesterday’s press release from the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) trumpeting the wonderful headline numbers from the Establishment Survey.

Total nonfarm payroll employment rose by 528,000 in July, and the unemployment rate edged down to 3.5 percent, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today. Job growth was widespread, led by gains in leisure and hospitality, professional and business services, and health care. Both total nonfarm employment and the unemployment rate have returned to their February 2020 pre-pandemic levels.

This news release presents statistics from two monthly surveys. The household survey measures labor force status, including unemployment, by demographic characteristics. The establishment survey measures nonfarm employment, hours, and earnings by industry. For more information about the concepts and statistical methodology used in these two surveys, see the Technical Note.

Employment Situation Summary, BLS, August 5th

Non-farm payrolls climbed by 528,000 in July and took out the pre-covid high from February 2020, yet the total civilian labor force outright contracted and the household survey employed only rose by 179,000.

I am peeling back the numbers, which reveal something rather disturbing. Why are people leaving the workforce? Why are the household numbers so much lower since the beginning of the year? Could it be illness? Could it be the destruction of the small business concept?

Click to enlarge: What’s causing the Not in Labor Force to begin rising above trend, despite an ostensibly robust employment scenario and outlook?

More than 70 percent of labor force nonparticipants report that caregiving, disability, or early retirement kept them out of the labor force; 13 percent were not in those categories but had recent earnings, indicating that they had been employed at some point during the previous year. Not surprisingly, caregiving is the primary reported reason for nonparticipation—characterizing about 4 in 10 individuals overall and more than half of female nonparticipants.

So, disability and caregiving can be reasons why a worker leaves the workforce? What happened to the national dynamic since the beginning of the year? It wasn’t COVID, as that has been accounted for going back to early 2020. Employer vaccine non-compliance cannot be a primary factor in this instance as the mandates were removed beginning late last year and are now a non-issue for the most part. Something else has entered the equation subsequently. Could it be the results of the high pressure tactics of the establishment to vaccinate the entire population regardless of the well-known side effects? Could it be that the side effects are finally taking their toll on the working masses?

Why is the Civilian Labor Force level dropping while the nation’s population continues to climb? What could be the cause as to why so many people are dropping out of the labor force in just the past five to six months?

Small business owners are getting doused and people are getting sicker

The Establishment Survey includes employee data in the Non-Farm Payrolls release. The BLS defines non-farms payrolls as the following; “all Employees: Total Nonfarm, commonly known as Total Nonfarm Payroll, is a measure of the number of U.S. workers in the economy that excludes proprietors, private household employees, unpaid volunteers, farm employees, and the unincorporated self-employed. This measure accounts for approximately 80 percent of the workers who contribute to Gross Domestic Product (GDP).”

Thus, the Civilian Labor Force includes proprietors, private household employees, unpaid volunteers, farm employees, and the unincorporated self-employed, as well as the non-farm payroll data.

So, why are non-farm payrolls climbing while the civilian labor force level struggles? I offer two reasons here;

  • First, I have to conclude that our anecdotal observations regarding the fate of small businesses in the post-covid world are fleshing out in the hard data.
  • Second, it seems the people are getting sicker, for whatever reason, and that’s why so many workers are now leaving the labor force. Moreover, the disabilities have little to do with Covid per se, but something that has entered the scene since the beginning of the year. Employer vaccine non-compliance cannot be a primary factor in this instance as the mandates were removed beginning late last year and are now a non-issue for the most part.

If you read my blog, you already know why small businesses are crashing and burning while the workers are dropping like flies out of the labor force.

It’s all part of the plan.

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56 thoughts on “Economic insight; Something’s wrong with the employment data

  1. A couple days ago I mentioned two stocks POLA and PPSI as getting ready to break out. I loaded up on both. Did you?

    1. Good piks! They are up today but I didn’t get in, POLA looks like it could go up quite a bit more so I’m looking for a dip on that one and i’m looking at VLTA and CHPT. EV sector is getting hot. Kicking myself for not getting some Bitcoin stocks but its viotale and I thought for sure BTC had more to fall, and it actually still does. MARA had proven to be the best one. I’m currently riding the bbby squeeze, small positions in AMZN and GOOG, because after the TSLA split it went right back up after a few months so these may do the same. Also have a substantial position in certain pot stocks and will scale out on any positive legalization news and I’m prepared to take a loss if not. I would like to get back into SELF, it has held up very well since you mentioned it awhile back.

  2. The real hopeless victims of mental illness are to be found among those who appear to be most normal. “Many of them are normal because they are so well adjusted to our mode of existence, because their human voice has been silenced so early in their lives, that they do not even struggle or suffer or develop symptoms as the neurotic does.” They are normal not in what may be called the absolute sense of the word; they are normal only in relation to a profoundly abnormal society. Their perfect adjustment to that abnormal society is a measure of their mental sickness. These millions of abnormally normal people, living without fuss in a society to which, if they were fully human beings, they ought not to be adjusted.

    Aldous Huxley – Brave New World

  3. More excellent news on the inflation front!

    Import prices dropped -1.4%. Consensus estimates for July called for a monthly decrease of 0.9 percent for an annual rate of 8.8%

    Export prices dropped -3.3%. Expectations for export prices were a monthly gain of 0.1 percent. The annual increase fell to 13.1%.

    The markets like what they see and so do I.

  4. Keep an eye on the USDX. If recent dovish Fed policy comments cause the USD to fall out of favor, inflation may come roaring back as a weaker dollar may cause price growth to revert higher.

    I am not a buy and hold guy, but have been buying on dips. I like SELF for its nice dividend.

  5. Blackstone has amassed of $50 billion dollar war chest in anticipation of a real estate bust.

  6. England government health officials stated that 1 in 246 vaccine recipients died within 60 days of vaccination.

    Can you imagine how bad it really is?

    The WHO director, Tedros, admitted he didn’t get the vaccine and will not get the vaccine. Yet he ordered the world to get it.

    1. I have a suspicion that residential real estate prices will begin to fall as the deaths and morbidities pile up. The open borders will fill up the properties, but the natives of the Western nations will begin to die in ever-greater numbers. This will help to remove price support.

      1. I can’t believe that the jabbed are not going nuts. I definitely prefer everything to remain calm.

        1. I do, too. They are in total denial. The workforce is shrinking and the people are really starting to get sick.

          The great resignation, my ass.

          How can residential real estate not get destroyed?

  7. More limited hangout, but why now? Because millions are getting tragically sick and are now dying. The secret cannot remain. Thus, Fox News is now the one MSM outlet revealing the growing tragedy to the world. But with Fox revealing it, the liberal livestock will deny it. Done with specific purpose. Millions will die, but the denial remains partisan.

    Fox News Stuns World With Unfiltered Truth: “This Vaccine Is the Most Dangerous Vaccine Ever Created”

    1. 239,000 left the labor force last month even though the population has been growing. Perhaps the powers now wish to slowly reveal the truth to the unwashed masses as to why they are getting sick, getting cancer, and dropping dead from organ and heart failure.

  8. Russia oil output set to fall by up to 20% by next year

    USA, Inc. oil output will be up 20% next year compared to 2020.

    Who’s winning? Europe energy prices skyrocketing while USA, Inc ships out energy at massive profits.

  9. PPI data looking excellent here. Continuing jobless claims continue to rise as well. It is clear that inflation is beginning to ebb.

    PPI was actually -0.5% last month versus expectations of +0 4%. The core rates were less than expected as well with x food and energy +0.2% versus the expected +0.4%.

    Now, the growth stock thesis still makes a lot of sense.

  10. I own a bunch of SELF, it’s that small self-storage REIT that offers a tasty dividend yield. They just announced earnings this morning and they looked great. Keep in mind as the unwashed lose their shirts they need to store their possessions somewhere, and these under-the-radar self-storage facilities are a great way to invest in the satanic ascension of the multicultural kingdom and destruction of the traditional family unit.

    In the age of the self, investing in self-storage facilities is a wonderful place to profit while exploiting the stupid masses.

    1. When I was moving – I had to ponder what to do with furniture that wouldn’t fit. I looked into these storage unit things and it’s not worth it – can’t people do the math? However if you are attached to material things, then maybe that’s something I don’t understand. I sold my superfluous things and felt much lighter without the burden. If I needed something, I could buy it second hand. And most times, it’s better than the thing I had.

  11. OMG alert! Oil chart – bear flags flying! Oil futures putting in a huge Bear flag on The daily! OMG alert! Stocks flying! Get into those ugly growth stocks!

    USA, Inc. Is now producing 1.5 million more barrels a day than just 2 years ago. OMG alert! Massive profits accruing to USA, Inc. Russia, Inc. is too busy detonating their profits in Ukraine.

    1. Hi alt-media financial “gurus.” 🤣🤣🤣

      Guru is a Hindu term. Don’t follow gurus.

    2. Let’s see how oil moves after the huge inventory draw down this week. This is very important to see how much upside pressure there is on oil. If oil does not rebound sharply after this huge weekly draw on oil and gasoline, the downside could be fierce.

  12. Excellent inflation CPI data this morning just came out. Much better than expected and it’s time to BUY BUY BUY

    BUY BUY BUY!!!

    Growth stocks BUY BUY BUY

      1. The time to buy the Nasdaq was the moment Powell in his press conference two weeks ago stated that he believed the Fed had achieved neutral policy.

        The markets had gone bonkers ever since. I do notice the PPI today failed to keep up the momentum. Is it a breather? Is it a top in the downward trend? Unless we have all our war, I think inflation may have topped out and the growth and meme play is still there. I like the solar and EV plays, but they already have run up since the dovish words came out of Powell’s wordhole.. I mentioned PLUG at 21. All the pigs that tanked have come back to life. Small caps especially.

        I would be trading them from the long side, but I would not be a buy and hold.

  13. Hundreds of thousands dropping out of the workforce every month and not a word.

    The mainstream call it the Great Resignation. We know what’s causing it.

    And we wonder why employers can’t find the needed workers.

  14. This information may be a contributing factor in the labor shortage.

    My job provides me access to internal hospital data in the Midwest region. For obvious reasons I will not get into specific details, however the data is used for State and Federal reimbursement.

    Based on the data I see, the Midwest is going crazy. Some interesting data includes the following:

    1. Acute inpatient psychiatric hospital admission rates have shot upward over the past 10 years and are significantly higher in the last 2 years. Pediatric (18 and under) psychiatric admissions are even higher.

    2. Suicidal behaviors (attempted and actual) have increased significantly in the last 10 years for all age groups.

    3. Black female suicide rates have nearly tripled in the last 5 years. Historically, within the context of larger groups, the black female has always been the least likely to commit suicide. It is thought black females have stronger coping skills and more religion.

    4. Actual suicide attempts have rocketed upward for those under 10 years-old. An actual suicide attempt within this age group was very rare 20-30 years ago.

    5. New psychiatric hospital construction is at the highest levels in 30 years.

    What does this mean? It’s open for debate but it’s clear that something else lurks behind the data. A societal breakdown is occurring before our eyes. The demoralization of America has broken down the ability to cope, at all age levels, adults, adolescent, and children. Dysfunction is nothing new, however the data shows there’s MORE of it than ever. One solution is clear, the system is building new psychiatric hospitals to accommodate the specialized needs of this new wave.

    1. You make some excellent and very important observations here. While a lot of this is outside the scope of the blog’s analysis, since the psychiatric aspect is more difficult to analyze as to the causes, it’s clear that the psychological warfare on the family unit is front and center.

      Our adversary has made it clear since the 1930s in the West and before for Marxist nations like the Soviet Union, that the attack on the family unit is of paramount importance. Thus, the transgender garbage and changing gender pronouns is part of the psyops. The double-mindedness and mental damage this inflicts on the young folk is acute and permanent. It has nothing to do with open-mindedness, but crafted to upend the family order.

      With respect to this double-mindedness in the media; the average adult is not able to cope with it, especially in the wake of covid. Many are falling apart mentally and physically.

      With regards to race; as for me personally, if I were overwhelmed with “white pride” programming, I would find it utterly demoralizing and demeaning. This type of programming is meant to offer platitudes while patronizing the supposed beneficiaries. In essence, it treats the people in question like children and belittles. It is a very effective form of demoralizing racism.

      Why offer any of this programming? All it does is anger the virtue-signalling majority, while subtly belittling the minority. But the social engineers have other objectives.

      Okay, I notice the effects in the minority communities. In my daily affairs I agree with you, too, that black females are typically more spiritually resilient than other demographics, especially when it concerns religion as they tend to be overwhelmingly bible reading Christians. This is entirely anecdotal on my part, but two of my single black female tenants who had excellent govt jobs have recently retired and they do not seem to be doing well. I don’t ask anything, but one is moving out this month and the other seems to be struggling for whatever reason. This was not the case previously.

      From what you are saying here, you definitely see the results. Believe me that none of this is by chance, and is all part of a well-managed guide path to dissolve all that is Godly and decent, and replace it with a population that is hopelessly dependent on the ruling authorities. Psychiatry and psychology are the new religions anyway, and the “mental-industrial complex” will continue to balloon in size. It is engineered by those who have a vested interested to screw up as many people as possible.

      My advice to all is that we must not be allowed to become demoralized to the point that we seek psychiatric help from within the system. We will not find relief there anyway, but only more demoralizing godlessness. We cannot be allowed to become ensnared, and if you feel like you’re slipping, take comfort in the fact that nearly everyone is suffering from this military psyops in one form or another.

      God help us all.

    2. Rate doubling off what base? Your stats are meaningless without that info. Them to inform us society is breaking down…. me researching homelessness and discovering there are 105000 homeless in America. So why rge need for shock horror alarm ? No shit there’s more people freaking out. The vast vast majority are not.

      1. He said tripling. The base doesn’t matter when the rate changes that much – it is an outlier.

        He also has nothing to gain by providing disinformation on this and he shouldn’t promote laziness by providing complete stats. If someone from the government is giving you information you need to discern what that means.

        The government knows there is a big problem with mental health as well as vaxx injuries and sudden deaths, they cannot put this cat back into the bag.

        I expect top level people to start exiting the scene to save their necks.

    1. A fractured and divided society can be easily managed and convinced of virtually anything. Of course, nothing came of these findings and nothing ever will.

      Those who received these jabs will continue to get sicker, yet the people will be obsessed with political correctness. The family unit will continue to dissolve right in front of us. The wealth of the world will continue its massive wave of consolidation. The world will continue to move closer to war and nobody in the population will be able to fight back. We have our iron and clay kingdom, and for those who are always concerned about racism and hate, I say to look out your window. Your objectives are finally being achieved.

      1. The evidence is piling in; on mainstream media nonetheless.

        Why is it now being allowed to be released on Twitter and network TV?

        Limited hangout?

        Is it time to tell the people the truth as the anecdotal evidence is too much to ignore?

        Why is the outcomes now showing up on the employment data?

        Perhaps the sheep are supposed to eventually know?

        1. I think this is part of their left right pendulum swing. Seems like the Covid censorship stopped in July, now it’s allowed in the mainstream. Also, mainstream subtly placing the blame for the monkey pox on the gay community. Starting to hear anecdotes in my social circles of negative lgbt sentiment, monkey pox jokes, etc. Seems like the media is flipping from promoting left wing populism to right wing populism. First step is empowering the “I told you so” self righteous conspiratorial right wing. I would think we need a few years of right wing nationalism before war3. If we get it at all.. I’d just take down the grid, blame Russia, implement a new currency system and call it day!

          1. To your point Dean – in my FB feed – I usually get ads to buy clothes, furniture, rugs, etc. Last week it was all about aliens and such. Today? The government of Canada Disaster preparedness site. I did click on it to see what they recommend, it used to be water, some energy bars and a flashlight. Now they say to prepare for 2-3 weeks of disaster, keep cash, put your documents in a safe place where you can locate them.
            Someone sent me this today:
            I see a trend here.

        2. I’m not sure the sheep realize – I was standing around at an event listening to people’s stories about how they knew each other. In the space of 10 minutes I heard 3 separate stories about people dying suddenly. Not one person commented on the coincidence. Of course, though, if you are vaccinated, you don’t want to think you could be next. Denial. It’s a very long river.

          1. Not yet they don’t. But we’ll see how the year plays out.. I saw some polls of young Canadian voters age 18-29 from 5 days ago:


            Jan ’22 = 20% voting conservative
            July ’22 = 37% voting conservative

            seems to be a fast switch in a short time.
            My 23 year old cousin made a comment on Friday night that “the money system is fake and money is all debt, who do we owe that debt to?” I asked where he heard that and he said TikTok. He’s a 3x vaxxed toronto j.

        3. It’s the guilt … if they’re unable to give it over to Christ. Hes rooting for them even if the rest of the christians really are a lot of knowitall pigs, enthralled at the spectre. Leads to massive violence that’s actually rather arbitrary unless directed

  15. I’m wondering if the statistics shown could be wrong or greased a bit.

    A few large companies in my area are hiring but they want potential employees to meet with the medical staff. I’m sure vaccine persuasion is there and if they refuse then they are not called in for a 2nd interview or hired. Anything legally wrong with that? They can just say a candidate is under or over qualified and wish the candidate best wishes in their employment search. I will say I am seeing a larger than normal group of people from South America living in the area. They are being hired. I trained someone from Guatemala. I asked him why would he leave such a beautiful place to come to my crappy boring meth infested high priced corn town. He told me he intends on going back home once he hits a certain financial point, and he qualifed for SNAP benefits and reduced rent. In other words living off the dole. No mention of vaccine mandates. I guess that is reserved for white people?

    Seeing the immigration replacement theory at work. It’s no longer a theory. I’m not sure how HUD and Section 8 works but I assume the landlords do not ask tenants for money but send the County a bill for the rent. Or landlords sign up and then Housing authority makes monthy deposits in the landlord accounts.

    There are cancer centers that are being built in my town one by the hospital and then one 20 miles out by a shopping mall. I’m wondering where are they getting the money for the construction, and why such huge facilities are needed? They obviously do not want a cure!

    1. I’m not an attorney, but the employment contract is a private affair and they could force the vaccines as a condition of employment. If someone knows please share.

      The last thing these medical non profits want is a cure for the diseases they ostensibly rally against. It’s a huge industry that is full of conflicts of interests.

      For-profit shareholder-owned cancer clinics are popping up everywhere. Same goes for dialysis centers. Both greatly benefit from the vaccine misery. I recall DaVita as a big one. What a huge profit generator.

      The section 8 housing voucher checks are directly deposited into an account in which the title of the property is also the named bank account holder. Rain or shine, the money comes in. Typically, the tenant is only liable for about 20-30% of the rent.

      Our anecdotal observations with regards to SA and Central American Hispanic overload is showing up in the population and worker statistics. It’s wonderful as a landlord, it’s terrible as a wage worker. The Hispanics waves drive up rents in working class neighborhoods while undercutting everyone for the labor I need to have done on my properties. The open borders is very profitable for the asset owners. The workers already living here are thrown under the bus.

      If the whites were to do the work it would be so much more expensive for me. The whites have been driven out of the business or own the contractor firms and hire the Hispanics for cheap. My HOA and condo manager landscaping firms are owned by white guys and they hire non-English speaking Hispanics to do the work. The owners live in fancy houses.

      The bottom 90% are the losers, yet the losers of the open borders advocate it out of compassion.

      The nation is toast. It has been and is just an illusion given to us by the NWO engineers.

      If you think what I say is offensive, ask yourself what your definition of a country means to you. If it’s different then I tell you that you already have the monetary system and government that is well suited to your desires. I then say you should stop worrying and learn to love the NWO. Look in the mirror and finally come out of the closet and admit you embrace the iron and clay of Daniel.

    2. Guatemalans are Central American–majority pouring over the border are Mexican and
      Central American..

      1. A fractured and divided nation can be so easily managed by a secret guiding hand. The more variables that are thrown into the iron and Clay amalgam the easier the adversary’s task.

        For the liberal minded and those who fight for social justice I tell you to look out your window and read your newspaper; your objectives are being achieved. I tell you then to stop worrying and learn to love the emerging world order.

      2. Thanks for replies to my comments. Ah yes Central American, I guess I meant south of what I assume my America is.
        To clarify I am not racist. I embrace other cultures. But I can see how white caucasions are being disposed of on purpose, it’s not just naturally occuring. European culture is not being embraced or promoted. And it’s been happening for awhile, i’m noticing it being amped up. Before many would come here and work the agricultural biz, farm hands, detasseling corn, and then go back home until next yeaer. But the are staying here now and bring more to town. If some get into trouble they just leave and go back home. Unless it’s murder or bank robbery I guess law enforcement doesn’t hunt people down in another country. After a warrant is issued maybe they are arrested in their home country and serve time there instead of being shipped back to the USA city/County where the crime was commited.

        When I goto Ireland or Sweden I want to see red head, blondes and be exposed to that culture. If I visit Nigeria, or Ghana, or Mexico I want that culture and food, etc…

        I see everything Latino becoming very popular throughout the USA, not just the south west, within the next 2-5 years, especially music on the radio and television shows. They already have their own networks and channels. White Europeans are stuck with CNN and Youtube.

        Wondering what I can do to profit on that and it seems they do everything for themselves and their culture and do it low revenue. They usually do not goto a white, asian or black business to get things done. The latino females around my area mostly stay with latino men, and I have mad respect for that. Buying as many teardowns and fixing them up before they do, and renting them out to incoming families would be a good way to make money minus the stress. Of course there would not be much profit to be made unless multiple units can be rented out. Two or three houses would not make it worth the while.

        Many jobs vacancies are being advertised but I do not think it is because people are being sick or passing from the jabs. I think it is false advertising or propaganda to eventually proceed with an open borders policy. These jobs are not being filled for a reason and it’s not from lack of applicants.

  16. The approved legislation caps a spending bill that was whittled down by another $300 billion to $437 bil.

    Oil companies have not been thrown under the bus, which is why it was eventually approved.

    Winners and Losers in Democrats’ Signature Tax and Energy Bill – Bloomberg

    Manchin negotiated $300 billion in deficit reduction into the bill, the first major effort by Congress in 11 years to reduce the difference between how much the country spends versus how much tax revenue it takes in. The deficit cuts are minor compared to the $24 trillion national debt but hawks say it’s a start.

    The $437 billion in spending is a far cry from the $6 trillion that progressives, led by Senator Bernie Sanders, envisioned at the start of Biden’s presidency. The bill excludes all proposals for new social programs, including child care, tuition-free college, housing spending and an expanded-child monthly child tax credit.

  17. This is a great analysis Chris.
    I have noticed that since people got the Covid shots their motivation and enthusiasm to work has gone off a cliff. Most of the vaccinated just have a lot less energy than before. Others have suddenly decided to retire from their work which surprised me as their business was doing great. The vaccinated seem a lot more lethargic and less motivated AND they are the ones getting Covid aa well as many other health problems.

    I believe a major reason why the airlines are experiencing sudden flight cancellations and delays is because they are losing a lot of staff due to unexpected illnesses. The airlines got a double whammy in staff reduction. Many airline employees left because they did not want the mandatory jab to keep their job. Then, the airline employees who took the Covid jab (which are the overwhelming majority)are suddenly getting sick and can’t work anyway.

    I see a lot of extra disability claims in the pipeline if it has not happened already.

  18. Chris, great analysis. I concluded recently that coburg mortality and sickness accounts for the shortage of labor. I did this without analyzing the numbers. Even while massive numbers of non-white invaders are pouring in.

    Jews are coming down the home stretch in their strategy to eradicate whites.

  19. Turbo Cancer

    Note: This is written in honor of a dear family friend who pulled through her recent cancer with flying colors.

    I hate the title of this post, but there was no other title for this post. We’re at the point where information is coming through fast and furious, and while that helps push us to that tipping point we’re all working towards, it comes with so much pain and suffering.

    1. The funeral home across the street has had what appears to be a normal number of funerals, but the details are not normal (at least to me). Last weekend there were two visitation days for a 39 yr old man who worked at the border, so likely jabbed to keep his job. Apparently he was feeling unwell about a month ago and was diagnosed with leukemia, a month later they are having his funeral. Left behind two young boys and his wife – I saw them before the weekend going in to make arrangements. My heart felt heavy all day and I don’t even know them.

      This weekend there was one for a 62 yr old man who died of cancer (long battle, apparently), his mother and father passed recently in their late 90s.

      There is another funeral next weekend for a 55 yr old woman who died suddenly. Everyone is shocked – the notice says donations to cancer research are being accepted.

      I know a lot of people who died with a cancer diagnosis but it typically took about three years before they threw in the towel.

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